will AI cause UBI to be implemented Posted on May 19, 2023 by Anonymous will AI cause UBI to be implemented
Hopefully, i cant wait to get the same wage as Americans while I live in a place that is way cheaper
>He thinks the elites and governments won't find some loophole to give people different amounts of money despite it being "universal"
the U in UBI used to stand for unconditional. take a guess why that changed
>can't wait for minimum wage
I'm not strictly against UBI, but you will have to get vaccinated to get it and you will have to vote for the top 2 parties in your country. Also, you'll hsve to take regular drug tests, not own weapons, give in your internet history, and need ti sign a pledge that you're not a political extremist. That irks me.
UBI will be also pennies compared to waht we have now and you wont be able to own gpus.
That's not universal. That would just be expanded welfare. It gets really difficult to really discuss things when one side is constantly moving the goalposts and the other side just follows them across the field.
Haven't you seen how US politics works these days? When Shaneequa sees some white suburban mom getting the same sized welfare check as her, she's going to have a full-blown chimpout. Universality will never happen.
That's why proponents of UBI need to be clear about what UBI is. It needs to be universal, and basic, and income. If it's not all three of those, it's not UBI.
Yes, for some countries. Those countries don't include America.
no all the NPCs will get maintenance jobs at data centers making sure the AI servers stay cool and comfy.
No, if we ever find ourselves in a situation where a large portion of the population will be completely superfluous to society, they will just be liquidated. Government and corporations will not create a NEET paradise for you, sorry.
fuck. what now?
Relax and enjoy life, knowing that:
a) Previous waves of automation did not lead to this outcome, and
b) if this one is somehow fundamentally different and will lead to this outcome, there is nothing you can do about it anyway.
No. Everyone should suffer because it's based and redpilled.
What could possibly go wrong?
UBI is Bernie Sanders tier, you big silly.
It’s an imaginary idea.
Another poltard who doesn't understand that UBI is a right wing idea. Sanders was openly against Yang's UBI.
Let me guess, Keynesians and Syndicalists are Fascist too?
No, but they are just patches on capitalism, doesn't work in the long term.
Milton Friedman espouses UBI over welfare programs due to the incentives of welfare recipients to maintain their lesser work output for a higher income.
>will AI cause UBI to be implemented
Socialism only works when people work. Something for nothing leads to hyperinflation and needing a million Deutschmarks to buy a loaf of bread.
people won't work regardless, at least it won't be efficient for them to do so
i wasn't aware that socialism was attempted in an AI-powered society already
if you think about it, humans are basically just AI running on meat hardware. so you could argue that socialism has been attempted in an AI-powered society, just with more meat.
AIs don't need incentives to work (yet)
No. You'll be onions green at best.
Maybe, but that would be missing an opportunity.
The amount of money that would cost would useful for mass infrastructure projects, including hiring a large number of working age people and paying them a good wage to do it. Even digital infrastructure and have the government subsidize development and support of open source software on a mass scale. Put people who need work to work on valuable public goods
There's work that can be done or made that would be productive. Governments should be trying to restore the idea of work as fulfilling and worthwhile by creating fulfilling and worthwhile work rather than acquiesing to work as "boring" and "pointless"
Singularity means post scarcity, no use for UBI.
Without singularity, get in your cagies wagie. If I gotta work a shit job, by God I'm going to force you to work a shit job too.
No. Even if rich people have enough money to theoretically pay for everyone's UBI, wealth is ultimately just a representation of ownership in farming + manufacturing + energy + healthcare + a few other core industries. Once UBI kicks in there will be no incentivization to participate in the labor required for these core industries, so all of the money that rich AI owning corporations have will be worthless. You cannot have a world of retirees. A slave class is required for society to actually function. AI won't be farming anytime soon, it would require too much unscalable robotics.
AI will not be achieved decades from now.
assuming humanity obtain full functional AI machine, the people who own and maintain it will control not the AI
Who will pay for it, and what they will get in return?
google it you stupid gay, then come back and join the discussion
The value of the money comes from the work of people.
To the UBI to work, someone has to be adding value to the money.
And if this someone has a monopoly over it, this someone can control what money can and can't do.
AI work is the work of 'people'.
he ask a valid question.
UBI is going be based on voluntary compulsion, not because people avoid work but because they need to work hard for someone, thinking that UBI is going to solve any problem is a delusion
If anything, receiving it should be contingent on being in education, employment/seeking employment, training, and childcare as well. It should not be a means for single NEETS to live in squalor pointlessly.
>It should not be a means for single NEETS to live in squalor pointlessly.
some will be like that this is inevitable, you can find this behavior in animals.
point being UBI will not allow you to manage your life the way you choose, the government entities will demand you to give something back, this will probably reformat into slavery.
did any of you read the question? or just blow your load at the opportunity to parrot rudimentary takes on UBI?
Why don’t you just answer the question?
Oh wait, you can’t lol.
>Why don’t you just answer the question?
are you some sort of retard? we're out here speculating the potential effects of ai on society. not fortune telling, you DUMB fucking idiot. literally no one on earth can 'answer' this, we can only speculate. fucking lmao
Sounds like you can’t answer the question.
Why not just cut taxes and be done with it?
why does it 'sound' like that? because i took one comment to shit on a low iq gay? do you just spew words out without thinking about what they mean? are you kind of dumb?
anyway to SPECULATE, according to:
AI would need to (replace jobs and) produce goods and services to the tune of 3.1+ trillion
Still can’t answer the question. Still seething like a child.
to reiterate. assume we already roughly understand the implications of UBI on the current economy (demonstrated by retards that can't read the actual question, piling in to parrot tired takes)-- ok, so how might AI change this in the future? ok, so to answer this, if we look at anon's information, here:
you can now refer to my 'answer' here:
if that's not an answer, please elaborate. if you are still confused, have a nice day.
>Why not just cut taxes and be done with it?
Sure, if you want less welfare and less taxes then that's a fine solution.
If you do want welfare, a significant amount, then I think UBI is the best way to implement it instead of means testing. Needs to be tried at least once, might have some interesting/positive social benefits.
$1000 a month isn't a lot of money. few people would quit their jobs, and those that do are probably not contributing much to the economy in the first place. you may see an increase in housewives(they are now getting paid $1000/month)
>$1000 a month isn't a lot of money. few people would quit their jobs
right, yea. this is sort of the argument for UBI pre-AI. it's theoretically supposed to stimulate artisans, artists, create equal opportunities, things like that. it's pretty unrealistic, but in a 'perfect world' it might work. AS IS.
>stimulate artisans, artists, create equal opportunities,
sentimental leftie garbage
I think the strongest argument for UBI is that UBI encourages people to take risks with their careers. $1000/month padding could really grease the cogs, allow them to move around where they need to be. Detach healthcare from employment and it's even better. The more frictionless an economy the better. Both capitalists and lefties want to see workers pinned down. They only want control, either through corporate wage slavery or state run administrative institutions.
>strongest argument for UBI is that UBI encourages people to take risks with their careers. $1000/month padding could really grease the cogs
of course, and basically falls under
>stimulate .../equal opportunities
it just came across as a little more utopian than i meant. these aspects are all part of the package and pretty well known though
sorry, to me the phrase 'equal opportunities' is a very loaded term. It doesn't really register in my brain anymore since 95% of the time it's being used to describe something completely different, or often nothing at all. I am proof that listening to politicians speak literally damages your brain.
retard the top doesnt WANT that at ALL
they've been ruthlessly stomping this behavior out for over 50 years.
>retard the top doesnt WANT that at ALL
that's the point I'm making retard. just more nuanced since I hinted at the two pronged strategy. Corporate and State powers working synergistically to pin down the worker. Entrenched powers love friction.
>sentimental leftie garbage
I can't take you guys seriously at all sometimes
How is UBI better than welfare or decreasing taxes?
It seems you just want to add a complex system of wealth reallocation that will be put in the hands of the most corrupt entities in this country.
You’re eluding instead of answering the question.
Who would pay for UBI?
>You’re eluding instead of answering the question.
oh, i see.. 'the' question is OP's, you self-centered gay.
but to answer *your* question (well, we're speculating, not fortune telling), the companies who's ai just replaced (everyone) will pay those taxes. who else?
if the ai's have truly replaced 'everyone' though, we are approaching some sci-fi levels of utopia/dystopia
So your assumption is based on the belief that AI will simply replace everyone’s jobs and thus require UBI?
Why didn’t this happen during any of the previous waves of industrial automation?
>So your assumption is based on the belief that AI will simply replace everyone’s jobs and thus require UBI?
not an assumption, and not my beliefs, no. lol
speculating a hypothetical is truly beyond retarded gays like yourself i suppose
>Why would I google it? I’m asking you to defend your beliefs instead of redirecting to a government sponsored source.
you're implying this question hasn't already been asked and answered ad nauseam. you are adding nothing to the discussion which doesnt involve your basic bitch low iq question. so yea. but if you beg me id answer.
You still haven’t explained where the money for UBI would be coming from.
If it’s such a simple question, why can’t you answer it? You’re literally crying instead of answering a simple question.
i did answer it.. look through the other replies. but keep hanging onto that like you ever stood a chance in this conversation, you sorry dimwit
You gave some napkin math about current welfare costs.
I asked you why not just reduce taxes and you didn’t answer.
So again, where does that money come from? It seems to me you just want to create yet another burdensome federal program that is going to enable political embezzlement. Just like every other wealth transfer program in this nation.
TL;DR you’re stupid. Stop pretending your ideas aren’t just as stupid as you are.
>How is UBI better than welfare or decreasing taxes?
if you googled it like i asked, you could easily answer this. brainlet gay fuck
this seriously seems like you think you're the only one asking these questions. extreme dunning-kruger shit, you simple idiot
i could still answer it for you, but you have to suck my fucking dick if i give you 4 or so (theoretical) differences/reasons for UBI over welfare
Why would I google it? I’m asking you to defend your beliefs instead of redirecting to a government sponsored source.
If you want to out yourself as a retard just say so. No need to get so angry just because you can’t defend your own beliefs.
it isn't better.
if you erase invisible taxes like federal reserve and other programs invented to give social credit and billions to billionairs on demand, you end up with a collapsed economy (their system isn't worth anything without their tyranny, and as soon as their money inevitably actually trickles down it will actually flood and runaway inflation will look like a joke. Imagine blackrock dies tomorrow. that's trillions into the ether or someones pocket. Things would definately be for the best if stuff like this happened but pretending there wouldn't be a power vaccuum and immediate catastrophe because the state would functionally cease existing as a malignant and authoritarian entity. America would essentially turn into shadow run immediately.
did you mean to reply to me? this isn't your twitter. if you want to join in on the discussion, read what the other person wrote and reply accordingly.
1k a month is fucking nothing.
Yeah, because jacking up corporate taxes because of AI will be successful or even happen in the first place with how politics is motivated. If it does, all they have to do is reshore or pay significantly less in taxes than they did in worker wages.
In terms of raw payouts to citizens, it's a welfare cut. $1000/month does not replace social security or student aid or disability assistance, which are middle class assets as much as they're poverty line assets. It probably does replace food stamps and housing assistance individually or lumped together.
Cutting the military down heavily and quickly would likely be bad geopolitically, but could possibly cut veteran benefits and cut off access to a large number of benefits like housing and education and the like.
There's no cost control associated with it, so ultimately it slashes lower and middle class access to more goods.
If it's held at a strict line, it ultimately slashes lower and middle class government goods with little account for cost of living.
If pegged to CPI, it implodes like social security is.
If it accounts for additional social costs appropriately, it likely implodes as well.
If it comes with deflation and cost controls, it could work, but probably won't because overreach and that's least profitable for business/politicians
>Yeah, because jacking up corporate taxes because of AI will be successful or even happen in the first place with how politics is motivated. If it does, all they have to do is reshore or pay significantly less in taxes than they did in worker wages.
what do you think would happen then? that society would collapse in some way? this isn't really an argument against the theoretical loss of (everyones) jobs. whether or not UBI is even part of the equation
>theoretical loss of all jobs
Maybe, just maybe, this is a bit of a faulty premise?
you might be right, but at which step towards this theoretical scenario do you think it's (most) unrealistic?
the ai itself? robotics? lobbying?
The assumption that you need to find justification for UBI when it’s just a cute name for a mass wealth transfer from the middle class to the political class.
the scenario implies that there is no middle class, because they don't have jobs
So it’s completely unfounded and assumes the middle class would just vanish completely without corporate sponsorship.
How to say you’re ignorant without saying it outright lol.
>So it’s completely unfounded and assumes the middle class would just vanish completely without corporate sponsorship.
where do you get this idea? where is that implied?
>I asked you why not just reduce taxes and you didn’t answer
what are you implying with this question?
your libertarian fanfic is irrelevant in this discussion. you can't even keep up.
try again. ask me a question properly.
>what do you think would happen then? that society would collapse in some way? this isn't really an argument against the theoretical loss of (everyones) jobs
AI replacing everyone's jobs, even if it were possible now or anytime soon, would take many steps of stupidity as it wouldn't be held accountable in the end. Robotics aren't there, computing size and AI efficiency aren't there. It's cutting down on office work by companies. It's essentially a replacement for work that would currently be at risk of outsourcing to India.
But it also creates the ability for massive administrative work to be done by small businesses or individuals, drastically raising the ceiling on their scale and lowering overhead costs.
welfare is poorly distributed, 15% of it is downright fraudulent and the rest can't be much better. government employees are incompetent at best, downright corrupt at worst, so you can't really expect them to spend welfare without most of it going to some crony fuckface nepotistic piece of shit developer that's sucking the government teat dry building exorbitant "low-income" housing projects.
Same exact shit with the military. Those Pentagon gays with their bullshit boy-scout medals are the biggest welfare queens in the world.
But benefits available to lower and middle class would be slashed with UBI. Why not clean up welfare corruption and fraud instead?
Since UBI's overall spending is more than current welfare and it's more efficient than current welfare then it should be mathematically impossible for it provide less overall benefit than the means tested welfare. Adding UBI and subtracting previous benefits should give you a higher number.
>Why not clean up welfare corruption and fraud instead?
Impossible. any system that is complicated to the point of obfuscation and has innumerable amount of cash valves will always be corrupt and defrauded. It's like the perfect environment for some kind of bacteria. Even if you kill 99.99% of it, it will just grow back until you change the environment, either by exposing it to sunlight or removing the food source.
also there are a bunch of other benefits besides low administration costs and effectively zero-fraud.
>Since UBI's overall spending is more than current welfare and it's more efficient than current welfare then it should be mathematically impossible for it provide less overall benefit than the means tested welfare.
Not for people who utilize government benefits for social security, healthcare, education, disability, housing, food, etc. The amount of money accessible to people who cannot individually afford those things is drastically cut. Those things don't become magically more affordable or accessible with UBI, they require more individual wealth or greater reliance on credit.
That's on top of inflation, possibly increased tax burden, and smaller job pool.
The return to people who would need it would not mean much.
Well, I guess those people who are hyper-dependent on welfare will just have to get fucked. What a shame that they couldn't cut it with free $1000/month. They should reincarnate on easy mode.
For the US, it would cost nearly the entire current federal budget. It would have to be paid in a combo of large budget slashes across all social programs, massive tax increases on the middle class and up, and massive money printing. Without controlling inflation or subsequent government intense regulation or takeover of industry to control costs and distribution of goods, it will balloon unsustainably
And there's the real question of if you trust the people in charge enough to be more reliant on them to live
$1000 UBI for adults 18+ would cost 3.1 Trillion. All military spending is 2.1 Trillion. Welfare is 1.2 Trillion (and that's just federal). Social security and Medicare is another 2 Trillion. You could slash the military budget and pull the entire welfare budget to pay easily for UBI. Social security could be replaced by UBI as well, so you might only need to slash military spending by half.
UBI is essentially welfare reform. that's why hardcore lefties hate it since all they really care about is having more access to government administrative tools and control. UBI """theoretically""" removes the administrative part and ruins their fun. Of course, in practice, they will probably just corrupt it, remove the U, and turn it into another tool of control as other anons have mentioned.
it would cost nothing if it was taken directly from the wealth of the morons in charge of the federal reserve.
the POC (People Of Coin) will pay for it
That is why UBI is coinphobic and problematic
keep dreaming worthless NEET fuck
government needs to round up all of you gays already
Why do you have that webm saved? That's kind of weird isn't it?
Well I have to jerk off to something after I reach my data cap
USA will never have UBI. EU will get it 1st, then Australia, Taiwan, Japan, and eventually China. Russia and America will be the last to get it before South America, Africa, and SEA get it.
It's just the opposite. The USA is by far the most likely to implement something like an UBI in response to social unrest due to mass unemployment, rather than solving the problem by changing the economic system instead.
A country without any history of socialism since New Deal is going to be first to implement UBI? Don't make me laugh.
That's precisely why they would implement it. UBI is the opposite of socialism. It would increase inequality and would divide the society into another class of people who are not allowed to work. A socialist solution would be a program of guaranteed jobs for everyone, for example.
not him but as i said
This one works like a guaranteed job you only need to take care of the stuff from day to day for minutes a day. which is more viable.
guaranteed jobs is another way of saying 'busy work'. half the workers digging holes and the other half filling the in.
>UBI would increase inequality
kek, look at this retard. it's a redistribution scheme at it's core. Progressive Taxes combined with a uniform welfare distribution program means that the poorer you are, the more you get. Poor shmuck pays no tax, gets $1000. Middle class smhuck pays $1000 extra in tax, gets back $1000. Rich shmuck pays $10,000 extra, gets back $1000.
>not allowed to work
Just making stuff up. Or has no idea what UBI is, hard to tell.
I swear you socialists are the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet. The most economically illiterate retards. Can't do math, can't do economics, can't do statistics, just stupid stupid stupid. So stupid.
The only reason that an UBI would be implemented in the first place is to quell social unrest due to mass unemployment. That's the implication in the OP. But of course you are too dumb to understand that, you fucking retard. Read everything in that context and maybe eventually you will be able to understand what we are talking about here, moron.
>b-b-but the context
nice try idiot, I caught you making shit takes and now you are trying to backtrack. OP Is a gay and didn't even use a question mark, so don't act like you know what he is implying. Also you type like an autist, how the fuck am I supposed to know whatever gay shit you are implying I don't have time to read your previous replies so maybe don't talk like a gay. seriously go fuck yourself.
Actually a genuine pseudintellectual autistic apebrain
it wont fucking happen in the USA. Its just impossible.
Even americans fucking screech about having public healthcare
It's already been a thing in the nordic countries for decades. I don't see why not
>will AI cause UBI to be implemented
That the dumbest take I've seen in a while
You should have added
AI will cause mass unemployment which will cause economic depression which will cause social unrest which will cause political reforms which will cause UBI to be implemented.
That's the implied route towards it amirite?
If so there's several different outcomes that can happen at each step including the one where AI doesn't even cause mass unemployment.
Just because (You) want it doesn't mean it will happen.
but probably not
>livelihood now 100% dependent on the state
>say "i hate the antrichrist"
>UBI revoked for hate speech
Nice future you have there, gay
You really think the elite will let us consume resources for nothing in return? They'll turn us into AI fuel before that happens.
Yeah, it's what I trying to say here
Some people will try to say something like "ughh, if we aren't there to consooome their products, how will they make money" completely missing that you would be just paying their own money back to them, since UBI would necessarily have to extract money from the still productive parts of society to subsidize the non-productive part.
Commies are retarded
Wait until you learn that commies are almost universally against UBI.
No. You might think otherwise because you're a white collar office rat who has never seen a real jobsite in his life.
The reality is that a significant portion of the work being done today by blue collar workers either can't be automated or could've been automated decades ago but wasn't because it was too expensive. No modern solutions exist for either yet.
The moment white collars start getting significant benefits like UBI or considerably shorter work weeks simply because they have an office job is the moment a class war starts.
And sucks to be you then because you're a pencilneck barely able to lift a coffee cup going up against gun nuts doing physical labor.
no, we're all going to be fed into the gas chambers
by the time it happens living on UBI will be unaffordable
>will AI cause UBI to be implemented
Yes, but enjoy the early years because when the brain implants arrive they you have contribute to reach a higher UBI level.
But don't worry too much, most of it will happen while you sleep. You will power virtual avatars that the elites will kill, rape and torture.
every opinion ITT is massively retarded
The west is pretty much there already. The real economy (companies that make shit) is about 10-25% of any given countries GDP. The rest is bullshit do nothing jobs which essentially boil down to passing paper around and other general busy body bullshit. I imagine you will see some bullshit do nothing job title pop up with the advent of this primitive AI that's going to decimate the service sector, anything finance related, anything HR/PR/Sales related. Companies need to keep you predicate and with a certain amount of liquidity in order to entrench their power and keep the ponzi rolling along. Should they deem you beyond use (aka breeder or consumer) then you better get comfortable with the idea of being homeless, owning nothing and being happy just like you're seeing in places like LA with the homeless towns. The only way it gets better for the masses is if we see the standard late stage capitalism execution of the rich and redistribution of their assets, but given everyone is a massive pussy now days serfdom is about to make a big comeback.
UBI can certainly work if your country fully utilizes it.
Product is distributed among people. Leftovers/Surplus gets exported to other countries.
Profit is then divided to the people after maintenance fees.
OR better yet.
The people maintain a machinery provided by the government.
Lets say they provide you a home aquaponics setup. The government sets a fish/produce that needs to be grown to be exported.
You only need to MAINTAIN IT. like giving it electricity/Feeding the fish/Checking the pumps everyday.
At the end of the month the government asks if you want to sell your fish/produce. Then those produce are exported to other countries and you get your share.
The rich don't care about you
do they care when people start flipping over cars and murdering politicians?
Only once AI wipes out 95% of the jobs. Until then people will live in denial, until at least the journalists also join in on the anarchy.
When it does, it'll cause Universal Diabetes from the resulting inactivity.
>The absolute basic minimum given in order for the person to sustain life.
Euthanasia pods will be a popular thing and every city has bunch of them. You can at any time walk into them and GTFO, because that is what they will want. Less mouths to feed.
Until they get their robot army, they need to feed all the unemployed humans or shit starts to hit the fan and quick. When they have the robots, they, meaning the elite that owns the production and lands can do what they want and you will live from their mercy if they so allow.
You, your children or your children's children won't have the IQ required to get the last remaining jobs (for 0.0001% of population). You grandchildren will be born to UBI with no hope of ever achieving anything better. All they can hope for is free goyslop entertainment probably pumped straight to their brains via some neuralink interface. After they get old and weak, they just walk casually to the euthanasia pod like going to a toilet or grabbing a snack from fridge.
All this assuming the AGI didn't go ballistic on all humans or the elite just decided to wipe 99.999% of population out so that it's easier to manage and no need to worry anyone getting silly ideas like overthrowing the ruling techno-oligarchs who wield AGI, gene editing and cybernetics making them literal living eternal gods among you trash.
>the collective opinion is that we are all going to be massacred soon by the hands of an AI wielding elite
>90% of political discussion is still chud bathrooms / blm tier from both sides
COVID was the AI and vaxx helped deliver it.
>over 70% of the worlds population has been inoculated with the quantum AI
>13.4 billion doses administered
Now we just wait for them to roll out the new technohomo system and hook up all the cattle to it along with all the IoT devices before the inevitable. Many of the unvaxxed will line up for the boosters once UBI and other benefits are announced.
Nah they're just going to let the bottom 76% die.
No, it won't, an UBI system is unmaintainable, it will rather destroy the whole humanity than something like that be implemented in the whole world.